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November 20, 2003

I'm mad too, Eddie

Couple of things here. First, I hear that a few of us are going through the blues. Does anyone have a theory on why it would be widespread? Winter setting in, Seasonal Affective Disorder? The fact that it's dark before we leave work anymore?

Secondly, I was listening to the Diane Rehm show this morning, to a discussion on the gay marriage issue and the Massachusetts court ruling. At first it was civil, intelligent, well discussed. Then one of the panelists started talking about how if we allow gay marriages, where do we draw the line? Two men and a woman? A man and a chicken? (he actually said that). Hyperbole aside, what possible reason is there to ban gay marriage? Chris at RudeCactus had a post asking the same thing, and last time I looked we all agreed with him. I can think of no good reason. Let's see-because "studies show children do better in a family with a father and a mother"? Bullshit. What about all those people who stay together for the sake of the kids, in a dysfunctional and abusive home? I contend that children with same-sex parents are no worse off than those with hetero parents. Assuming the hetero parents don't divorce, too. That is always an option. Not to mention that these same-sex couples are already raising children, only without the legal support that allows them both to be caretakers in a legal sense. Banning gay marriage isn't going to stop gays from raising kids together. They have been doing it for decades now and some of those kids are adults. Let's ask them. Next question? Massachusetts has banned the ban on gay marriage, but what about those who get married in MA and then move to Texas or who knows where else? Those marriages aren't considered binding. But any hetero who gets married anywhere in the US has a marriage that is recognised everywhere else in the US. In the world, really. OK, now what would stop me, a female, from marrying my best girlfriend in order to get the family benefits? Nothing, but what stops heteros from doing that now?

Whew. There are other questions to ask, and I am really, really, truly curious what harm can be done by allowing gays the same legal rights as heteros in a committed relationship?

And why is anyone surprised about Michael Jackson being charged with child molestation?

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I'm blue, too. That's what it is. Maybe I don't get enough time in the sun.

Posted by: pam at Nov 20, 2003 11:54:51 AM

The gray days are definately harder. And some of us don't have work or are afraid for their jobs if they have them. Upcoming holidays can make some people blue, too - you think everyone else must have a happier, less dysfunctional family, or everyone else has a partner, etc.

As for gay marriage, I think some people are just plain squeamish and it seems to them as perverse as doin' it with a chicken. I think they have to just get over it, like it took some people a long time to get over inter-racial coupling. Then there are some religious types who say marriage is meant for procreation, to which I say "well, what about couples past the age of having kids or who can't have kids or don't choose to - does that mean these folks shouldn't marry either?" Isn't a loving, committed relationship what, to use their term, family values is all about? Isn't that what they want? Of course, it's not really up to them to dictate that two highly dysfunctional heteros who decide to get married can't either. But if we're specifically talking about two people who love each other for pity's sake, what's wrong with that? Finally... No, I'm not the least bit surprised about Jacko the wacko. ;-)

Posted by: Leslee at Nov 20, 2003 1:13:02 PM

Thinking about it again... What surprises me about Jacko is why anyone would let their kid anywheres near that freak! But then that makes me wonder if they're in it for the money after all. Just all too creepy.

Posted by: Leslee at Nov 20, 2003 1:21:02 PM

I have heard the theory that the parents may be in it for the money. Why else submit your child to a dangerous situation? No parent I know would willingly or knowingly do that. Perhaps if the parents were held accountable too, this wouldn't happen as often. As for the money thing, my solution for that is if the prosecution wins, have the parent's legal fees covered, and some extras, all expenses within reason, and have the rest of the settlement go to a charity that aids victims of child abuse.

Posted by: Alicia at Nov 20, 2003 1:43:51 PM

Good idea. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Posted by: Leslee at Nov 20, 2003 2:31:09 PM

I still can't understand people not "getting" homosexuality and that gays are no different than the rest of us. The fact that most people actively will the conversation off into silly territory shows that it comes to just plain homophobia, which is the same as racism but apparently acceptable because of the Bible. Not one person in public office would say that blacks don't have the right to marry but they say the same thing about gays and we don't have nearly the outrage that an anti-black statement would produce. Why? I'd venture a guess that homosexuality has been around longer than racism and yet we're still trying to get past the fact that love knows no bounds. If gay couples want marriage in a Church under Christian ceremony, fine, I can see the outcry, if you're going to raise a fuss then at least site your faith as the reason for it. But if we're talking a simple marriage license by a justice of the peace, what's the problem? It certainly can't be the Bible because marriage was around thousands of years before Christianity (though I know this is one of the biggest reasons people are calling for bans, though they won't come right out and say it due to most not being ignorant enough to think that marriage is an original Christian idea). I find it funny that Atheists can be married without so much as a peep from the conservative religious contingent. I guess you can get married even if you don't believe in God, but you just can't marry a member of your same sex even if you do believe in God, due to some rule of fuzzy logic that most people can't define. They have no good reason why gay couples shouldn't be allowed to marry other than "I don't like it!" and yet that seems to be good enough for most people in this country. We do have a FREE country right? Oh wait, we don't, that's right. We only have the freedom that the people in charge want us to have. Isn't that fascism?

As a funny aside: I've often wondered whether or not Atheist criminals can rightfully lie during court proceedings because "Do you swear so help you God" really doesn't apply to them. *chuckles*

Posted by: David at Nov 20, 2003 9:44:20 PM

I suspect that after gay marriage is normalized the allure will wear off and gay people will be cohabitating and practicing serial monogamy like the rest of us. After the lawyers get through with them, of course.

Posted by: caleb at Nov 20, 2003 11:17:07 PM

Oh, and I'm bipolar. Normal cycles don't affect me. I run on Caleb Secret Time, and how I feel is always a big surprise to me.
Oh, and I was hoping that Rush would be the one caught with pictures of youngsters and MJ would just be all doped up, but I can still hope that Dubyah will choke on another pretzel, and when I say "pretzel" I of course mean it in the GOP sense, which can be translated to "a 1.75 liter bottle of Dewars and a black eye."

Posted by: caleb at Nov 20, 2003 11:24:34 PM

To paraphrase another Twilightcafe post, you can discuss gay marriage
with someone who argues from the point of view of society's norms or
guaranteed constitutional rights, but you can't argue a case
with someone who says "Marriage is defined by God and that's the end
of that."

Posted by: pam at Nov 21, 2003 11:37:44 AM

caleb,i like your style. im not sure about the queers or the seasons, but to say that if the love suits you, go for it! and if seasonal changes mess you up, move to beliez like i did last winter. somebody bless- hoop

Posted by: joemama at Mar 5, 2006 3:00:17 AM