« what the Zell? | Main | This is Halloween »
September 06, 2004
battle of the sexes
I am doing some work with myths, stories, and fairy tales, in books, movies, anywhere you find them. I am finding stories that have a strong male protagonist, usually with weak females, or a strong female protagonist with weak males. Can anyone give me some good examples of stories, tales, myths, with strong male and female characters both?
TrackBack
TrackBack URL for this entry:
https://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d834204a9153ef00d8346a511969e2
Listed below are links to weblogs that reference battle of the sexes:
Comments
Are you staying with only western thought? May want to go the library and check the children's section...especially Asian stories. Also look in Native American. Have to remember that western thought of women was sort of cemented in the Grimm Brothers era of Cinderella and such. Incidentally the Cinderella story is not new. Most of worldy societies have their version of Cinderella. I'll ask my daughter's teacher for a copy of all the books on the Cinderella theme...and Cinderella isn't weak in all of them.
Posted by: Naomi at Sep 7, 2004 9:20:26 AM
Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time books had both strong male and female characters, I thought.
Posted by: *Name Hidden* at Sep 7, 2004 9:36:51 AM
Wheel of Time, really? I have had a hard time getting in to reading it, but I will try again. And no, I am not limiting myself to western thought. I excluded Cinderella because there are really no strong men in her story. Only strong women from the ones I know. But I am not going to close my mind to anything, send it all along :) and thanks!
Posted by: Alicia at Sep 7, 2004 9:56:16 AM
It's been years since I read some of it, then got bored with the "stretching a trilogy out into a career" type writing (IMO).
Posted by: *Name Hidden* at Sep 7, 2004 10:04:22 AM
...the x-men :^)...
Posted by: billy at Sep 7, 2004 10:56:17 AM
Actually, a lot depends upon what you mean by "strong." Even in the case of "strong" female characters, a story can be colored by a degree of misogyny (especially if the "strong" female characteristics are, let's say, being manipulative, emotional, harridan-esque, etc) and the same goes true for male characters.
It sounds like what you are looking for is a mythical cycle where conflict is not between genders, but has both male and female characters? No? Since most hero-based tales focus in on one person, regardless of gender, you may have to extend what it means to have "strong" male and female characters in the same story. Does "strength" preclude violence towards one gender? Does it include modes of "resistance" (VERY important, especially when reading middle eastern/bedouin mythology)? Do the characters have to be "good" to be strong?
I would say that there are a lot of stories with strong men and women in Greek/Roman and Norse cycles. Athena, for instance, stars in a lot of heroic tales in which she aids, but does not supplant, the heroism of male characters. Freya holds her own, certainly, but does not supplant male characters. In fact, she gets half the dead warriors to feast in her hall.
Or in the Irish mythological cycles...say the stories of Cuchulainn, who is trained by the warrior women of Alba (Aife and Scathach). All the women in his stories are strong (Fand, Aife, Emer, Scathach) and not at his expense. Or the stories of Queen Maeve and her husband.
If you're looking more for the "folktale" angle. Lots of Native American stories, probably too many to list.
Creation stories of Samoa, some African tribes (like the Tutsi), and so on might provide another place to look. Appalachian folktales like Ashpet (their Cinderella), the Jack tales, what's the one with the girl giant-killer...Mishmeg? something like that.
You might like to look at modern efforts to right the gender imbalance: Katrin Tchana has a book that I can't remember right now with lots of feminine heroines. Jane Yolen as well. For contemporary novels, you might look at stuff like Charles de Lint and Orson Scott Card for more balanced alternatives to the Robert Jordans out there (and both are working with more concrete real-world mythical constructs than Jordan is...deLint with Irish and Native American, predominantly, and Card with early American in his Alvin Maker series). Charles Johnson's "Conjure Woman," focusing on African American folklore, and many strong female and male characters. There's a good book by Qiron Adhikary about Indian folktales with strong female characters.
I could just go on all day.
Posted by: Hannah at Sep 7, 2004 11:39:58 AM
The only one I can think of is Joan of Arc, at least as portrayed in "An Army of Angels" by Pamela Marcantel. She's definitely strong, and there are both strong and weak men around her. I loved that book.
Posted by: Leslee at Sep 7, 2004 2:22:49 PM
Hannah, thank you. You are spot on. I am looking for myth cycles, even modernized in novels, in which the woman is heroically strong. She has integrity and doesn't get pushed around, yet she accomplishes her goals without resorting to manipulation and underhandedness. Same for the males. Think good role models for children, people you would want your kids to emulate. Jane Yolen, good call. I wanted something where the males and females interacted. Star Wars middle trilogy, Leia and Solo. Strong, heroic underneath the surface and it comes out. heinlein has lots of strong women and men too. And then I am not married to them having to be Dudley Doright or anything. They don't have to be goody-goody, or even start out strong.
I will see if I can describe better what I am looking for and post it, but you all have given me some great places to start looking. Thank you :)
Posted by: Alicia at Sep 7, 2004 4:39:52 PM
